Q1 - I would like to buy a baby J. How can I find out about breeders or stores in my area?
A - From editor:
There are a number of ways of locating a Jardine's breeder. Many stores and breeders advertise in the back of Bird Talk. You could also consult your local avian vet. Finally, you could post a message to the Jardine's email list stating your location and requesting assistance in finding a breeder near you.
A non-inclusive list of breeders is listed below. Keep in mind that while everyone listed below comes recommended by at least one member of this list, there may be breeders below who other people have not had good experiences with. When choosing a breeder, do your homework & make sure YOU feel comfortable with the breeder (i.e. hand feeding, weaning, fledging, socialization, shipping, support when you get home, costs, health guarantees, sanitation / disease prevention, etc)
CA: Aves international
Gail Worth
(310) 541-1180
J&R Exotics
Jim
San Francisco
FL: Jean "The African Queen" Pattison
Private Email: afqueen -at- gate.net
MD: Nancy Jaax
NC: John Boos
African Pines Aviary
Creedmoor, NC
(919) 528-3161
NM: Kelly Tucker
email: vktucker -at- highfiber.com
fax: (505) 384-5441
voice: (505) 384-5490
MAP Certified: March, 1994
OK: Gary Blankenbiller
MAP Certified and CAS
405-691-4114
FAX 405-691-3555
Email gary -at- wingscc.com
TN: Cathy
MAP Certified
TX: Scott Lewis
Old World Aviaries
MAP Certified
Email: slewis -at- OldWorldAviaries.com
Web: http://www.OldWorldAviaries.com/
VA: Genny Jacobs
Joyful Noise Aviary
MAP Certified
Virginia Beach, Va.
804-426-2570
WI: Shimniok, Oakridge Feather Farm
AFA M.A.P. Certified Aviary
Distributor of Air Purification Systems
P.O. Box 113, Cross Plains, Wisc. 53528-9545
TELEFAX: 608-798-4877
Private Email: oakridge -at- midplains.net
Q2 - Is it OK to have my baby J shipped?
A - From Rita and Jean:
Shipping by airline is not the ideal way to deliver a bird, but as breeders saturate their area with offspring from their birds, eventually the willingness to ship or drive long distances becomes essential to remain in business. We depend on these airlines to ship our babies and also to bring new genetic stock to our aviaries. Although more expensive than cargo shipments, a counter to counter service is preferable to most breeders rather than taking an entire day or more of their time to hand-deliver a bird, while other bird(s) sit at home not receiving their daily care. Also, for small breeders who work full time in addition to raising birds - the weekends are the only two days to clean aviaries, make a batch of food, catch up on breeding records, make vet appointments, etc. With hand-feeding schedules it is almost impossible to be away from home for more than five hours.
There are 3 kinds of flights:
If you must connect, ask if they have warm rooms to house the birds, or if the bird must sit for a length of time do they have warm rooms.
Ship as early in the day as possible, and at the very least make sure there is another flight to the same destination afterwards, per chance the connecting flight is missed.
Ask the right questions, double check connecting times to make sure the connections won't be missed. ALWAYS obtain flight numbers, departure and arrival times at each stop (direct flights are not always available), flight numbers, and a freight bill number.
Call the airlines with the air bill number when the bird should be transferred to the connecting flight. They know shortly after if the bird is on the plane. You want to know the bird connected.
Write on the carrier "If bird is not put on scheduled flight, MUST contact shipper".
If the weather is cold - block off air hole vents in the carrier with folded newspaper or cardboard. Be sure there is plenty of fruit for the bird to eat for hydration, and plenty of favorite dry foods (2 days worth at least). For older birds placing a perch low to the floor is less stressful on the bird.
For unweaned babies, if the weather is cool, provided shredded paper toweling or similar substrate for chick(s) to snuggle down into for comfort. A favorite, travel safe toy is good to include. Tape a small baggie of formula, spoon or syringe, and complete feeding instructions along with your phone number in case the baby does not arrive at its destination on time and requires a hand-feeding. Taped or written on the carrier with a bold marker should be a noticeable sign that reads: Attention - this bird(s) must be hand-fed by _____ (time).
A - From Rita:
I have shipped and have received several birds via Delta DASH Counter to Counter service - and these birds have never entered a cold, empty warehouse. The shipper takes them inside the terminal ticket counter (not the cargo building) - hands them to a Delta representative where they are taken on board by a flight attendant and placed in a presurrized hold. When the plane lands the carrier is hand carried off of the plane and is taken to the Delta office inside the terminal - so the receiver must go to the Delta ticket counter to pick the bird up also.
A - From Jean:
Shipped a baby (8 weeks old) from Tampa to Tex. non stop. Called from Texas airport and said baby wasn't on plane. Found baby on his way to L.A. non stop (he was inadvertantly put on the wrong plane). Opted not to have anyone feed him in L.A.. Just put him on the next plane back to TX. He arrived 20 hrs after leaving my house. When they called from airport they said he was hungry but you would have thought the bird had been just taken out of his nursery at home. Not a ruffled feather.
Q3 - What about bringing my baby J on the airplane in a carrier?
A - From Rita:
I highly recommend that you call airlines for maximum size of carriers to fit under the seats. The size does vary among the airlines - but the 8" high seems to be a universal maximum.
We made the 14" OGPP for med. sized parrots to work as both a travel cage and under the seat carrier. The bird has a perch available as well as lock down crocks in either position used (carrier position or travel cage).
The Parrot Palace allows full view of bird by airport security - a bird should never be sent through an x-ray machine. The acrylic panel allows them to make sure nothing suspicious is hiding in the carrier with your bird.
As far as carriers only go - the basic small tan carriers (with metal bars or solid tan top) do fit under airline seats. Kennel Cab brand models are usually too high to fit under the seat - again - the airline requirements vary.
Q4 - How much money should I expect to pay for a J?
A - From Rita:
Prices for Js vary depending on subspecies, area of the country, and what is included in the price (some breeders include veterinary exams, vaccinations, books, etc.).
I will admit that if a person asks me about a bird and the first question out of their mouth is "HOW MUCH?" - that immediately tells me this person may not be a likely candidate for one of our babies.
Since you are obviously going to start J shopping there are many questions you should be asking - with price being the last. Don't forget - parrots are long lived. A $1000 parrot that should easily live 50 years equals $20 a year for that bird's companionship. 50 yrs. is just an example - life spans should be longer with proper nutrition and care.
Q5 - What things should I look for when shopping for a J?
A - From Rita:
Questions to ask people selling baby J's:
How much do you handle your babies?
If the answer is "Oh, I don't want to spoil them," - walk on by. Babies need to be cuddled and stroked every day. When they are really young this is as simple as taking a few minutes after the hand-feeding for some personal cuddling.
Are your birds socialized?
Ideally, especially for J babies, they are introduced to a variety of people during development, which will help prevent that "one person bond" so many J's are known for. Some breeders live in the boonies - so perhaps visitors are not the norm. Still, a breeder should include baby J's in household activities - such as folding laundry in the bedroom, hanging out during television, etc. If babies only see one area of the house until the time they leave, they will not make a transition into a new environment as easily.
At what age do you wean your babies?
The answer should never be a concrete age - such as 12 weeks. All babies are individuals and should be weaned according to their own schedule. A force-weaned baby is a traumatized baby - and this may leads to feather plucking at 2-3 yrs. of age. We have had babies wean as late as 24 weeks. They don't leave our home until they are eating well on their own, or the new owner is confident and willing to spoonfeed a baby cereal mash (recipe provided) that we give our babies in the morning and bedtime - when they are almost weaned and eating plenty on their own.
What kind of diet do you wean your babies to?
The answer should not be "seeds"! It should be - a well-researched pelleted diet as a base, with a variety of vegetables, pasta, breads, homemade mashes or commercially premixed foods like Crazy Corn, Max Snax. Fruit is good also - but does not have the vitamin content of vegetables and should not be over emphasized.
May I take my baby home unweaned?
The answer should be NO. Unless you are a very experienced hand-feeder OR the breeder is willing to provide hours of extensive lessons. A novice hand-feeder should obtain a food thermometer and gram scale before undertaking such a large responsibility - as the baby is the one who ultimately suffers.
Do you provide a health guarantee?
The answer should and must be - YES. And get it in writing so you have a paper back up. Babies should be guaranteed against disease and congenital defects. Physical deformities must be listed - not all breeders divulge this if you are buying sight unseen - so it is not a bad idea to ask this. Handicap birds can make wonderful pets and should not be bypassed because of it - however, it is nice to have a baby arrive and not be shocked that it is missing all of its toes or part of a wing, etc.
Most guarantees have a time limit as birds can pick up bacteria in a less than clean environment. As hard as breeders may try to screen future homes - people can be deceiving also. A time limit is normal to protect the breeder from unscrupulous buyers.
Ask what is required for a refund if the bird dies of disease. For example: many parrots look alike - so someone could go to a breeder saying "Your bird died of P______" - a reputable aviary would be shocked to hear this - and would certainly want proof. Of course a necropsy has to be done when a bird dies to determine the cause. I have heard of breeders requesting the birds leg with the leg band in place. This may seem cruel but there are scams out there who try to take breeders for a loop - saying their bird died when it really has not.
Q6 - Should I buy a baby that was tube or gavage fed?
A - From Rita:
Babies should be either spoon fed or fed with a syringe, with the formula being tasted by the chicks. Babies should not be fed "by gavage". When tubes are placed directly into a crop and the crop is pumped full of formula, chicks receive no actual feeding satisfaction and are very difficult to wean as they have no idea what food tastes like.
A - From Jean:
Technically there is no difference in tube, or gavage (rhymes with garage) feeding. Most breeders "refer" to tube feeding as using a soft very pliable rubber tube, they refer to gavage as feeding with a curved metel tube, that has a ball on the end. When a bird begins the feeding response the whole esophagus opens to allow food while the trachea closes. Once the feeding response starts the tube or gavage glides down the esophagus and the feeder stops once it reaches the crop. A premeasured amount of food is then expelled into the crop.
I personally do not believe tube feeding or gavage feeding will make a bird any less tame, or sweet, or harder to wean than a bird that is syringe or spoon fed, if done properly. There is a right and a wrong way to do all of the above. A hand feeder that uses a tube or gavage and does it properly will have babies that no one would be able to tell were fed in that manner.
Q7 - What age do baby J's wean?
A - From editor:
The answer is not absolute. Some birds take more time than others. You should expect a J to be fully weaned somewhere between 12 and 24 weeks.
Q8 - Should I buy an unweaned baby?
A - From editor:
This subject is very controversial and feelings tend to be very strong one way or the other. Below is a sample of some of the issues:
A - From Scott L:
I do think that a fairly inexperienced person is capable of handling the job successfully. However, I do not think that such a person is as capable as an experienced hand feeder to recognize problems should they occur and take proper action.
Would you weigh your baby daily with a gram scale? If not and the baby got sick, you would very probably have not noticed until the baby was really sick and perhaps too sick to save.
Do you know how to recognize if a baby aspirates during feeding? If not and the baby seriously aspirates, the baby would probably die because antibiotics were not started in a timely fashion to avoid aspiration pneumonia.
I am not a rocket scientist and I have successfully handfed many babies. However, I do believe that you should have some experience before you take on a 5-week-old chick. Not long ago, to my horror, I watched a baby I was feeding aspirate. I knew what it looked like. I started Baytri, and the baby was fine. Would you be able to do the same?
We don't sell unweaned babies to anyone without significant hand feeding experience. For all the reasons listed above.
A - From Jean:
I for one would be out of business if I couldn't sell unweaned babies. I will fight to my death for the right to do so. I sell a lot wholesale and other breeders.
I sell unweaned babies (also known as chicks) to many first time feeders. BUT......only after I have instructed them and feel they can do a good job (and they must feel confident also). I am available 24 hours a day for questions and problems, no matter how silly they may seem to the owner.
I agree about contacting the breeder first. I KNOW MY BIRDS better than anyone, I personally resent anyone going elsewhere FIRST. I have often advised people to a vet, or another breeder for advice or reassurance, but me first if it's my baby!
A - From Genny:
I have sold two young unweaned (as opposed to 12 week old unweaned) babies, both timnehs. Both individuals had extensive experience hand feeding cockatiels. Both birds thrived physically, but while one was wonderfully socialized and raised with loving "nurturing dominance", the other soon became the terror of the household and "had to be gotten rid of" because of her "bad" behavior. In our decisions, we must remember that it is always the bird who pays the biggest price.
Q9 - If I decide to buy an unweaned baby, how do I finish hand feeding / weaning him?
A - From Jean:
Snickers (8 weeks old) is near weaning. If you have not clipped him yet, don't until he can fly well (3 days to a week or more). Be sure to cover mirrors and windows when he starts flying. It really helps the weaning process if they can fly. I usually cut out the middle feedings first. After awhile try lessening the morning feed. If he is eating soft food well it should be fairly smooth.
I like the night feed to be the last feeding stopped but sometimes they do eat through the day so they don't want food in the evening then are hungry in the AM. Sometimes I don't cut the afternoon feed out, I just feed less. Some food seems to stimulate the appetite.
A - From Cindy:
I was feeding 18 cc's for day feedings as per directions from the breeder, but my gut told me he just wasn't getting quite enough. (I think raising four human babies through infancy helped with the gut thing, I was never much for strict schedules). So I increased his feedings by 3 cc's and wah la, it quieted him right down! Food for birds when they are very young is one of the most important things for making them feel secure.
A - From Gina:
I took the regular pellets and soaked them in hot water until they were completely soft - if they cool off too much, warm them up a bit. Kiwi loved them that way, it was the only way I could get him started on regular pellets. He still enjoys them mushy once in a while.
A - From Scott P:
Feed "glop" between 100-110 degrees Fahrenheit is good. Do NOT go any hotter than that, as it can cause crop burn, leading to infections, and, even worse, trauma. You can go to a restaurant supply (or home) store and pick up a chef's pocket thermometer for about $5.00 if you do not have one.
Q10 - Does my new baby J need to go to the vet?
A - From editor:
Yes! It should be taken immediately to the vet for a new bird checkup. The following tests are recommended for a new bird: CBC (complete blood count), Psittacosis test, PBFD test, ????
If you have other birds in the house, the new bird should be isolated as much as possible from the other birds in the event that it does have some illness. You do not want to bring a disease into your house & infect your other buddies. Recommended quarantine times are a minimum of 30 days, 60 days is better. This means that you put the birds in separate rooms, keep toys & dishes separated, always wash hands with disinfectant after handling birds before handling birds from other "side", have a shirt handy that you can put on when going into the new bird room that stays only in the new bird room. This is a recommended procedure. The more you can isolate the birds & any virus/bacteria, the less likely your chance of spreading a disease through the rest of your flock will be. If you can only do some of the recommendations, you can still decrease your risk.
Q11 - At what age will I be able to determine a J's personality?
A - From Rita:
Personalities seem to emerge around 7 weeks for the Greaters. By nine weeks you can determine who is going to be the cuddler and who is the road runner/great explorer.
Q12 - What is the color of the eye-ring on an immature J?
A - From Jean:
When the J's were being imported and surgically sexed at the import stations the immature birds sold cheaper than birds "ready to breed". With surgical sexing they would visibly see the development of the birds internal organs, thus knowing if it was a mature or immature bird sexually. All the juveniles had the dark eye rings. As the J's started having babies I noticed this wasn't the case with the domestics (at first), all my juveniles had white eye rings. The last few years however a lot of my babies have had blackish eye rings, they do lighten up with age.
A - From Rita:
I have never seen a dark eye ring on any immature J's - either my own, Pam's, or those at bird fairs.
Q13 - What about hybridization?
A - From editor:
The subject of hybridization of birds, that is, pairing together a male bird from one subspecies with a female bird of another subspecies to create a baby bird which is a hybrid of the 2 subspecies is very controversial. Many people feel very strongly about whether or not such pairs should be allowed to mate & produce young and therefore this topic will not be addressed here. It's a highly ethical, and often political, issue that causes many harsh feelings.
A - From Rita:
Crossing a Greater and Lesser J is not considered hybridization of a species - as both are Jardine's listed as poicephalus guilielmi.
Should you be concerned if the Jardine's you are buying is not a pure sub-species? Answer: If it is to be a pet only, then no - crossed birds make excellent pets. If you plan to breed the bird in the future, it is important never to pair a cross J with a pure J down the line. Cross-bred J's should be sold as pets, and not to the serious breeder interested in conservation/preservation of a sub-species.
A - From editor:
If you want to buy a J and find out the breeder breeds Scarlet and Greenwing macaws together, even if their J is pure, you will have to make your own personal decision if you wish to buy from them.
© 1998, 1999 African Parrot Society
Last update: March 04, 2003